Finnish health care: they'll pay for your doctor visits if you're sick, your medication if you have some disease, your therapy if you have depression. But god forbid if you take care of yourself, for you'll be penalized.
8 months, 4 weeks ago.
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53 comments so far
i just had to pay almost a hundred euros for my well-woman exam (pap smear). and birth control pills are not subsidized at all.
8 months, 4 weeks ago by cybette
I got mine done at Pirkanmaan Sairaanhoitopiiri,
8 months, 4 weeks ago by myrtti
@myrtti do you mind telling me how much you paid? I first went to the health center here at work but they don't do papa so they gave me two numbers: one to uusi gynekologia (or something like that) and the other to koskiklinikka. I didn't think there'll be a difference so i just went to the latter since they had an earlier available appointment slot
8 months, 4 weeks ago by cybette
bah, I've seem to accidentally removed the answer which had the price
it was something around 25€. They'll snailmail you the results or send them to a doctor if you ask, so even if they're not one of the labs that the doctor suggested, it shouldn't be a problem.
8 months, 4 weeks ago by myrtti
@cybette sounds like you ended up going "private", as that costs more but is faster
I get private cover from work, so i can get almost instant Dr appointments etc, instead of having to wait 1+ days. This still is way better than the UK though.
8 months, 4 weeks ago by ymb
@ymb: papa smears always take three weeks to get the results, going private doesn't make it any faster...
8 months, 4 weeks ago by myrtti
(As a man wonders why pap smear tests take so long to evaluate when other similar lab works take at most a week or two to evaluate.)
8 months, 4 weeks ago by jkniiv
@myrtti i meant getting the appointment is quicker
8 months, 4 weeks ago by ymb
@ymb: quick check at their online booking system tells me there's an appoinment today 1615 that's available... so yes, it might be marginally faster in private healthcare, but for papa smears even if you'd go there tomorrow or the day after, the results wouldn't change...
8 months, 4 weeks ago by myrtti
ok, so you all are complaining about pricing of private/public health system in Finland.
I don't want to make a joke of health check-ups as, well they are not to be joked about.
BUT
YOU HAVE ONLINE BOOKING SYSTEMS. WHERE YOU CAN BOOK.
You all should come to Ireland and get sick-see the differences.
I also have private health care (thanks to work its very very good), and we still wait for days, if not normally weeks, for an appointment, where they tell you whats available, no sign of a online booking system anywhere.
When you go to hospital and you need a bed, do you get it straight away?
Seriously..from what I have been told (just talking to average Finnish people), its much better than Ireland's.
Not wanting to sound whiny, but...does anyone want to swap?! :P
8 months, 4 weeks ago by runningwithbulls
In Ireland you get treated by the same doctors, in the private or public health system.
The problem is: if you have private health care, you get it quicker, better, than someone without private. You also get a bed if you need it. Where public patients can be left sitting in chairs, in corridors, for days.
People have died in chairs, waiting to be seen by doctors.
8 months, 4 weeks ago by runningwithbulls
well, i was guessing that that was one possible explanation for @cybette having to pay and i don't think you will find anyone willing to take you up on your generous offer to swap @runningwithbulls :)
8 months, 4 weeks ago by ymb
Don't. Get. Me. Started.
8 months, 4 weeks ago by Bishop
@cybette - i heard there is free chk up for women whn u r 25, 30, 35?
and yes, it sucks that birth pills etc are so costly n aint subsidized...
8 months, 4 weeks ago by Surya
@runningwithbulls: I don't know how the Irish system works but a setup where a public owner of hospital facilities rents and allocates beds to the same doctors in their public (via health circuits) and privat practises is morally questionabl.
8 months, 4 weeks ago by jkniiv
@jkniiv you won't hear anyone over here disagreeing with you....but
8 months, 4 weeks ago by runningwithbulls
how do we find out if a place is public or private? and if they are private, why would the doctors at my occupational health services refer me to them? they should be neutral, right? so confused...
8 months, 4 weeks ago by cybette
@cybette the doc i visited on the recco of the office doc did give me a small discount on consultation. no such luck with the pills though..
8 months, 4 weeks ago by Surya
i wasn't complaining about having to pay (esp coming from U.S.). i was just puzzled about why i'm paying so much more for a routine check up to maintain my good health (sexual or otherwise) than if i get a disease or something. if it's public vs. private then it makes more sense. however my appointment wasn't immediate, i made it on monday and wednesday was the first available. however the doc told me that i should get my results within 2 weeks (snail mail)
8 months, 4 weeks ago by cybette
may be coz its better for the health care industry if you are sick?
8 months, 4 weeks ago by Surya
@cybette: contraceptives aren't meant for curing a disease, if you're given prescription to them to that particular use (contra acne etc.) ... Besides, you're supposed to have healthy kids with as much non-Finnish genes and have them born, raise and live in Finland, so you shouldn't even be given contraceptives! j/k
8 months, 4 weeks ago by myrtti
@surya @myrtti funny thing is, bcp's are subsidized in the U.S.! and yeah i've heard that "reasoning" before about how they want more babies in Finland which is why contraceptives are not subsidized :P
8 months, 4 weeks ago by cybette
@cybette makes me feel really good, being considered a baby making machine.
8 months, 4 weeks ago by Surya
seriously, it sucks. Especially since I favour Nuvaring which is 16€/mo
8 months, 4 weeks ago by myrtti
yeah, and where's the guy's part in all these? huh? huh?
8 months, 4 weeks ago by cybette
little birds have told me things might be different in UK... cough
8 months, 4 weeks ago by myrtti
hang on, in the US BCP is subsidised? Wtf? And whats the ex-president then all on about god bless america and all that rubbish?
Here, in ireland, condoms are expensive and bcp is not subsidised. You pay for them - becuase the church, catholic, got to stick its nose in things for too long.
i know myrtti was half joking, but bcp is not supposed to fix sickness (and i know thats not what you looking for cybette).
Giving out medicines/pharmas on subsidy without a medical need is not the best thing to do.
i'm not coming from some weird religious pov, or macho pov..just to make it clear.
8 months, 4 weeks ago by runningwithbulls
@runningwithbulls: might be that I've misunderstood something, but I've got the impression in UK you pay a certain fixed sum on a prescription and basically get the meds on it for free? wouldn't be the first time I've misunderstood something though...
and that bcp not being for curing illness and hence not being subsidied is exactly what I meant. In Finland prescription medication have different subsidy percentages depending on NHS (that's KELA for you Finns) decisions.
8 months, 4 weeks ago by myrtti
About Finnish health care... It's somewhat questionable that there are (almost?) no "proper" private hospitals AFAIK. If private sector fails, public sector is there to save your ass.
Hospital capacity and queues greatly depend on the hospital (duh). Usually capital area / southern Finland has more volume, more money and better changes at hiring doctors. If you're somewhere north, it could take months to get to a basic surgery.
But I'm not complaining about my work-paid health benefits. Usually you get appointment for the same day.
8 months, 4 weeks ago by mandrl
i just don't think people should be penalized for not wanting kids / planning when they want to have kids. i heard that if the doctor prescribed the pills on the grounds of acne problems, then it will be subsidized. What?! clear skin takes precedence over family planning? that's screwed up. not trying to make light of those who do have acne problems. but subsidize one, subsidize all (medication).
8 months, 4 weeks ago by cybette
@cybette: IIRC, the cases where the bcp has been prescribed for acne have been cases of bad and painful acne, as a final step before prescribing Roaccutane, which is prescribed to women only if they are on bcp and vowe to use condoms as a second birth control method...
8 months, 4 weeks ago by myrtti
... and take a pregnancy test every third month or so with doubled birth control.
8 months, 4 weeks ago by myrtti
http://www.kela.fi/in/internet/english.nsf/NET/131003131216MH?OpenDocument
8 months, 4 weeks ago by myrtti
thanks @myrtti for that info. it still doesn't explain why i'm penalized because i'm responsible. enough about the pill. what about condoms? they should be made easily available and cheap. in addition to (note, i'm not saying instead of) subsidizing the medication people take for STDs and what not.
8 months, 4 weeks ago by cybette
Meiner meinung nach bcp:s should be subsidized for the same reason social security exists in the first place: for preventing social troubls and consequent unrest as caring of the society is cheaper in the long run than keeping it under an iron grip.
8 months, 4 weeks ago by jkniiv
@jkniiv: yes! thank you for putting it so eloquently
8 months, 4 weeks ago by cybette
Also the number one ailment on this planet is overpopulation, contributing to the climat change and the economic hardship of billions. While Finland may be facing a population decreas, it ought to be managed w/more subtle means.
8 months, 4 weeks ago by jkniiv
yeah and to prevent people like us from having kids. why? because while i have many reasons for not wanting kids, there's only one reason why i might want kinds - just to see how they look / how much they take after me :P
so yeah, feed me the pills, i need them...
8 months, 4 weeks ago by cybette
@cybette: No prob. You hav the right to control your fertility just as easily as us boys over here. It should be as much as possibl a mutual and equal decision for the prospectiv parents to get kids. It's not fair if ladies hav to carry the financial burdn
8 months, 4 weeks ago by jkniiv
Actually, we've found the X gene is transmitted through the father
8 months, 4 weeks ago by edythemighty
No offense, folks, but I find it a bit annoying when people complain about something they want not being subsidized, as them being "penalized" for wanting it. If I have children and need a bigger home, am I being penalized because I have to pay for that? If I move farther from work and it costs me more to commute, am I being penalized because nobody is paying for the extra fuel?
There's a completely financially costless method of not having kids: Don't fuck. If you want to insist on government providing birth control and condoms, aren't you really asking them to subsidize your decision to have a sex life? :)
And before anyone starts saying that I'm some sort of religious promoter of abstinence, you should know me better by now. All I am saying is that we should take responsibility, both personal and financial, for our behavioral and lifestyle decisions, and not go around saying we're "penalized" because somebody else won't foot the bill.
8 months, 4 weeks ago by Bishop
Bollocks
8 months, 4 weeks ago by WaveyDavey001
I would ask you to elaborate, but I have to go to another building and may not be back before jaiku takes a 24-hour nap. So, your call. May not see it until tomorrw. :)
8 months, 4 weeks ago by Bishop
@Bishop: right, responsibility. most people don't want to / plan on getting sickness / diseases, but there are some that get them by being irresponsible. and guess what? their medication is subsidized! that's what i have a problem with. and i'm not talking about houses or cars or fuel, just medication. why can't they all be covered equally? why the discrepancy that "it's not curing anything so it's not covered"?
8 months, 4 weeks ago by cybette
There's one form of birth control that's actually subsidized at least in the Helsinki region. That's the hormone coil/spiral (hormonikierukka for those who, like me, have no idea what it is in english). But only for first timers who have had kids. But anyway, that's five years of free birth control. Not bad if you can live with the nasty side effects.
8 months, 4 weeks ago by Kriisi
Never paid any extra or asked for papa, it's always come as part of the routine check-up at the gynegologist. They have suggested it, first asking me when was the last test taken.
8 months, 4 weeks ago by Suviko
I think Bishop is right on the money on this one
8 months, 4 weeks ago by bogart
@bishop What makes you think peopl are equally capabl of being responsibl and reasonabl in the first place? As the need to procreate is very strong, even beyond the control of a person's everyday reason, I see no problem in managing that thru common means.
8 months, 4 weeks ago by jkniiv
yeah, well, it's not his money
8 months, 4 weeks ago by cybette
Yes, this is not about money really but @bishop's and certain other peopl's general distrust in any and all social arrangements they havn't opted in explicitly. These peopl want to micromanage their involvment in society, to make it a club membership.
8 months, 4 weeks ago by jkniiv
@jkniiv: I wouldn't go that far.
8 months, 4 weeks ago by myrtti
@Bishop. I thought it was a point well made :) Seriously though, I know your thoughts on Governments, but we have them, and many many things are subsidised to the point that it is difficult to work out a market value for a person and therefore difficult for a person to fully be able to take responsibility. Subsidies (and taxes) are normally there to help force change in behaviours whether we want it or not. The costs of birth control may be far better than the consequences of not having it, moving to the countryside is unlikely to be of benefit
8 months, 4 weeks ago by WaveyDavey001
@myrtti: I don't follow. In your opinion what about the above does not constitute the attitude of @bishop and his likes (free-market libertarians)?
8 months, 4 weeks ago by jkniiv